The concept of a stone came up fairly early in my words - right at the beginning when things began in earnest - and even though I struggled with understanding many other things, understanding both that a stone was being discussed and that this was important was something I understood very clearly early on. That part of the story has always been with me, though I did not know what it was or what it was supposed to do.
As I have understood more of the words, and more importantly, understood and reflected on the story in general a bit more, I can see in hindsight that a majority of the words and experiences over the September 2019 to April/May 2020 timeline involved the Stone as its central theme. Meaning, specifically, the entire reason I was receiving these communications was in relation to activities and decisions surrounding this Stone.
There were also strange references with and around this Stone that didn't really make sense, or I didn't fully understand even when I thought the translation was pretty straightforward. The concept of an "ancient juice" is one such example of something I really didn't understand at the time, but with the benefit of time and hindsight, makes a bit more sense now, at least in a possible version of the story.
The first words that mentioned this 'juice' came on Nov 1 as:
Sardi ar dyenido Starerios aman-ore
My translation is:
With stone and ancient juice/nectar Starerios Aman to perceive (and/ or rise)
Starerios here is a name/ title for a Being, I believe, and what is being said here is that this individual will be able to perceive (and later even rise to) Aman using both a stone and ancient nectar-juice. I think Starerios here refers to Eonwe-Faramir (Holy Ghost), and is fully consistent with my overall thought that through the stone that Eonwe (who is on Earth) will be able to communicate with Ilmare-Eowyn, who is in Aman, and even join her and others there for a time.
But what about this juice?
It is a strange reference, and in my earliest translation attempts, I had the word as 'will' (as in 'the will to do something') because that is the other potential definition for that part of the phrase, and it seemed to make more sense than juice. Basically, in my mind, this Starerios would use his will with the stone and perceive Aman, or something like that.
However, it is indeed meant to be something like juice or nectar, I think (having also something to do with bees and honey, not suprisingly, perhaps, given Eowyn-Deseret's involvement here).
I believe the juice will be required to be taken by Eonwe prior to him being able to use the Stone. The juice is designed to change his body, quite literally. Without this change, he would either be unable to use the Stone, and/ or the use of it would be too much for his physical body and mind to deal with.
There is meant to be a link established between he and Ilmare-Eowyn, and between Earth and Heaven, but there is a vast difference between the glory in general of these two places, as well as the individuals involved. On the cosmic scale of intelligence, we here on Earth are morons, I think, and it is the extreme limits and fallen nature of the bodies we inhabit that makes this so. Our brains are part of these bodies, and though our spirits can and do shape these brains to our use the best that we can, still we can't get past the fact that the hardware we are working with is pretty bad.
Thus, I think without this juice, the interaction between Ilmare and Eonwe, at least for purposes of transferring complex thought, ideas, words, etc., would probably be as effective as me trying to transmit what I consider complex thought to my dog. My dog might understand that I love her, and even gather general words and meaning, but would be unable to fully grasp what is being said. She would need a significant change or boost in how her mind operates for that to be possible.
So it is with Eonwe in his current form.
Another example would be Moses and his interactions with God, in which a change was needed for Moses to be able to both abide God's presence as well as understand what was being said. It is likely, in my opinion, that although not recorded in any account we have, Moses likely also needed to drink this juice-nectar as part of his own experiences. In addition, Moses was told of a seer that would be raised up in the last days just as he was, and this seer would be like Moses. The experience of taking this drink may be one way in which they will be alike - both the act of drinking it, as well as the change that was wrought on them and their bodies. Moses was changed so as not to experience death (translated, essentially), I think by means of this drink. So will it be with Eonwe, who after drinking, will be like Moses in the nature of their bodies. This change also allowed or enabled Moses to visit and live in these Heavenly places (without which he would not have been able), and Eonwe will do likewise.
In any case, I think this is why the juice/ nectar is mentioned in conjunction with the Stone, as they will both be given to Eonwe at the same time with instructions, likely, on taking the juice prior to his use of the Stone.
I mentioned Moses, but this juice is not without precedent or mention in other stories. When Jesus visited those at Bountiful, he mentioned that he also drank something - the bitter cup that was given to him. We have taken this figuratively thanks to the confounded tales in the bible. If you take the bible tale away, however, one might be free to understand Jesus' commentary here in a much more literal (and accurate, I believe) way.
Jesus drank a bitter drink that was given to him, which I believe also changed him just as Moses, and gave him power to fulfill the will of his Father (Manwe, who Jesus has condescended to serve and become his son). Eru-Jesus' own son, Eonwe/ Holy Ghost, will follow in his footsteps and drink the same drink (perhaps from the same cup?) that Jesus also drank, which will enable him to fulfill the tasks in front of him also, one of which is using the Stone to both receive the story that Joseph put on it as well as share it with Ilmare in Aman, while receiving the story that she has assembled and written.
I wonder if 'Ahman' in Adam-ondi-Ahman refers to 'Aman' ie America?
ReplyDeleteSo it'd be 'Adam in America'.
Star (stiff) eriol (one)
ReplyDeleteStarerios = one mighty and strong?
Hah!
Can you walk us through the translation here? I recognize “sardi” as “stones” but don’t see where the juice comes in.
ReplyDeleteBen:
ReplyDeleteYou are right that 'Aman/ Ahman' can refer to the land that used to sit above or over where America now is. I think this is one more interesting common point between Joseph Smith and Tolkien, in that both used that name to describe a land that existed in the general geographic location of America.
In this case, I think Aman refers to the Blessed Realm or Heaven that was taken away from the Earth (and which resided on or above America) during the 2nd age.
Another interesting thing with the Adam-ondi-Ahman name you mention, is that 'ondi' can be another form of the Quenyan (Elvish) 'ondo', which is a great stone or rock (vs. the smaller stone of sar-). Perhaps a peak into the type of language that is being used in that name with both ondi and Ahman having ties to Elvish/ Eldarian.
Ben:
ReplyDeleteOn your other comment, yes, I think this could work also. A stiff one (this makes me laugh a bit due to immature humor) could be mentioned here.
Two things that make me think slightly differently, and I admit to cheating a bit based on the dreams associated with the word.
When this word "Starerios" appeared, it was 'shown' to me visually. I don't have any good way of describing it, but it was like someone was holding it up for me to read it. I recognized it as a name, but when it was first shown to me, it appeared differently than Starerios. Before I could fully remember or grasp the name that was being shown, whoever was showing this name quickly replaced it with Starerios, and I believe the "star" was the change, and it was clear, or I at least had the sensation, that it was English - one of the first of many times where English would get mixed in. In this 2nd iteration of the name, the word appeared with the star in brackets like this: [STAR]erios, if I remember right.
I would see this name again in a dream later on. In that dream, I woke up lying on a large white bed in a white room. Everything white. I realized that this bed was not my own and maybe I should not be here. As I looked around, I folded back the top corner of the bedsheet, and to my surprise the underside of the sheet was covered in writing. There were many words, with various different handwriting. My view eventually focused in on a place where I saw the word Starerios and a person's name next to it, like this: "Starerios = [name]". I then really felt that maybe I had seen something I wasn't supposed to, but curiosity was getting the better of me and I decided I was going to do some more looking around on the sheet while I had a chance. At that moment, however, my youngest son came running into the room (in the dream) and pounced on me lying there wanting to wrestle (something he would do in waking like also). As soon as he jumped on me, I woke up, and so didn't get to see any more of the words.
Anyway, I think the star is English, and on the other parts it could even be Latin for the -ios, as it wouldn't be the first time Latin popped up in them. But, I don't know. Just know its a name/ reference to somebody.
WJT:
ReplyDeleteYes, see below. I've listed out literal translations from Eldamo so you can see where each work component comes from.
Sar = Stone
di = with
ar = and
dye = behind/ back before time (also from 'ya' - back/ ago, and ties to 'yara', ancient)
nido = from 'nidh': juice or honeycomb (the -o ending is sometimes used for objects)
Starerios = Title or name (see commentary above to Ben)
Aman = Blessed Realm
ore = rising or heart/ inner mind
On ore it somewhat depends on if umlaut or not (I can't remember - it would have been in my notes but I burned them), or it could be both. Ore (with umlaut) is one of those words that doesn't have a good English equivalent, and there are a few scholarly papers on its meaning. I went with 'perceive', because whether physically present (by rising to it), or through mind communication, Aman would in some way be perceived by this Starerios.
In any case, stringing that together you get:
Stone with and before time juice-honeycomb Starerios Aman rising/ inner mind-heart
You will also note that I 'cheated' on a few of the words. For example, "di" is defined as "with" when it is a preposition in Eldamo, not a suffix. It could be "under/below" since the stone was in fact buried, or it could even mean both with multiple layers of meaning yielding something like "With below stone". There isn't an Elvish word for buried, so perhaps "With buried stone".
Anyway, fun with words. If you look at the translations, you will also note that in many cases one root can mean many different things, and so without some kind of story to anchor you, you quickly can get all over the place with what things could mean if taking just the individual phrase without other context.
I wonder if this 'juice' thing links up with my earlier idea of prophets undergoing an ordeal in which they're spiritually 'brought online' as prophets such that they can receive revelation.
ReplyDeleteThe big example would be Jacob wrestling with the angel.
How about "With a will from before time, as hard as stone, Starerios perceives Heaven/America inside"
ReplyDeleteben:
ReplyDeleteOn the juice, perhaps. Apparently it is pretty bitter, so maybe not so fun to drink.
On the translation, yes, definitely could be.
I think your alternatives are actually a great example in demonstrating that it is likely not possible to get to any definitive story or meaning based on just the words alone. It gets worse as these phrases keep coming over a period of months and all different possible combinations and meanings exponentially increase, and a person (like me!) can get turned around pretty quick.
So, that is why I admit to tipping the scale to my preferred definition based on not only the experiences surrounding the words, but also much clearer English phrases that would come later that seem to support this overall point around a stone being used by a person. The main reason I posted that phrase was not to say that the words definitively support the story, but rather that I can find that story in these words.
I wouldn't kill too many brain cells or hours trying to lock down the definitive meaning is here. It will drive you crazy (speaking from my own experience).
ben:
ReplyDeleteWhen I responded to your first comment on Starerios, the comment preview only showed me the 'stiff one' translation, and not your tie to mighty and strong, so I didn't even see that when I responded (only seeing it now).
That could be - despite my insistence that the star was English, it wouldn't be the first time that I misread things. Stiff is another word for strong, and so could definitely work here, and could be an interesting connection you've made.
I didn't want to shortchange your comment given that I didn't see all of it, so just following up and letting you know.