Sunday, August 13, 2023

The Holy Ghost: John 14 - 16

 I just wanted to get some brief, probably mostly introductory, thoughts down.  My guess is I will circle back around to the Holy Ghost multiple times in some of this.


I had mentioned the Holy Ghost in my post on rethinking the identities of the two 'personages' that appeared to Joseph Smith in his accounts, and I also put down some of my thoughts on the Holy Ghost as being a dyad, or son and daughter of Jesus from a world and time long before this one (those can be found here and here, respectively).  I should note, and I guess I should put down in a post at some point, that when I refer to Jesus I believe he is the same being that Men call Eru and Elves refer to as Illuvatar in Tolkien's writings.  Jesus was Eru born as a Man on this Earth, and so actually when I say the Holy Ghost is comprised of the direct children of Jesus, it would probably be more correct, or at least less confusing, to say they are the children of Eru.


In any case, I will pick up the thread of the Holy Ghost here, and do so by listing some of the concrete jobs or missions that Jesus ascribes to them.


I also include my standard disclaimer about all things bible, but I find John is probably more accurate than most, or at least there are thing of value in it, and so I will use it for my purposes here, specifically chapters 14 - 16.


In these chapters, Jesus actually says quite a lot about the Holy Ghost, who I also equate as the same thing as the 'Comforter' that he also names.  Here is my list of what Jesus says, and I have also taken the liberty of adding one more item from Jesus' teachings at Bountiful (the last bullet is this add).


The Holy Ghost will:

  • Be sent by the Father in the name of Jesus
  • Teach the disciples of Jesus all things
  • Bring everything that Jesus taught the disciples to their remembrance
  • Testify of Jesus
  • Reprove the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment (what these mean are mentioned)
  • Guide the disciples to all truth, including things that Jesus wanted to teach them during his mortal ministry but the disciples were unable to bear
  • Speak only what he hears (will not speak of himself)
  • Show the disciples things to come (i.e., show the future)
  • Receive what Jesus has, and then show it to the disciples
  • Glorify Jesus
  • Bear record of both the Father and the Son


Just who the Holy Ghost is and how they will do these things is not something well understood or aligned on within Christianity, I don't think.  And I am not pretending to understand everything either, but I do have some guesses that differ from traditional interpretations (as partially exhibited in my earlier posts).


In any case, to get a few things out of the way or dismissed.  Some view the Holy Ghost as more of a force or emanation from God, not an actual being.  I think Jesus is clearly giving the Holy Ghost an identity here as an independent being, and so dismiss this interpretation.


Another thinker whose writings I respect has posited that the Holy Ghost is actually Jesus himself, as I understand the position, but not in a Trinitarian way where the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all one manifestation.  Rather, you have the Father, and then Jesus, who post-resurrection manifests himself as being the Holy Ghost.


I also do not agree with this notion, as it runs counter to how I understand the nature of Jesus and of his family, as well as how he is describing the specific attributes and roles of the Holy Ghost here.  Let me briefly introduce what I think, and then we can go from there.


First, when I read 'sent' I take this as a being that is sent in the same way that Jesus himself as well as his other messengers that have been sent come - he will be born.  I say 'he' because it is my sense that it is the male counterpart of the Holy Ghost that has been given the primary task of working among Men in much the same way that Jesus and other prophets have (i.e., as Men), while his sister's primary responsibility, at least post Jesus' resurrection, is conducted mainly through remaining as a heavenly/ angelic being.


The 'sending' of the Holy Ghost will happen at some distant future point from Jesus' discourse here in John, well after these disciples are dead.  The disciples seem to be often treated as having a learning disability or short term memory loss or something by assuming that the Holy Ghost was needed to remind them of things Jesus would have taught them just a few years prior.  Rather, my take is that bringing things to their remembrance will be necessary because the disciples will have died, been reborn at a future day, and thus will have forgotten what Jesus had taught them (as well as forgetting who they are!).  In that day that these disciples are once again on the earth as Men, the Holy Ghost will also be sent among them, and his mission will be to help them remember everything they once knew and, in addition, teach them new things that they were unable or not ready to be taught during their earlier mortal lives.


To me, this makes sense, but one would have to accept reincarnation, at least for some, as a thing, or this story won't make much sense at all.


The Holy Ghost will be sent 'in the name of Jesus' and will literally bear Jesus name.  What I mean by this, is that the Holy Ghost will act in Jesus' authority, speaking and acting as if he were Jesus.  He will do this because he will only speak the the things that he has heard and hears from Jesus.  His relationship to Jesus (being a son of Eru from long ago) also makes his bearing Jesus' name a natural thing, I think.


Why was it important that Jesus depart and the Holy Ghost could not be sent until he did so?  Perhaps because Jesus needed to prepare the Holy Ghost for this role.  Now having descended below all things and become a Man, Jesus' understanding of the plight of Men was complete (something that could not have been without him being born as a Man).  With this new knowledge and understanding, he would then teach the Holy Ghost and prepare him for when he would be sent - meaning, giving the Holy Ghost the words and actions he should perform, and ensuring he was fully prepared for the mission at hand.


This mission is comprehensive.  Acting as if he were Jesus, he will do the things that Jesus said:  He will reprove the world of sin because they did not believe in Jesus.  The world will not see Jesus anymore (until the very end, and then only the righteous, perhaps) and so the Holy Ghost will be his representative.  And he will ultimately judge the world, and specifically Satan and his followers, casting them out and ridding the Earth of their presence.


No small task, and no wonder some people have had their intuition lead them to think that it must be Eru-Jesus himself that does this.


But although the Holy Ghost will come in Jesus' name, he will be a separate being.  Both a son and servant of Jesus, it will be his privilege and role in the last days to fulfill the mission given to him.


I think I will stop there for now, and then pick up in future posts on other implications, insights, etc., that are interesting to me and might be so for others. 

8 comments:

  1. Do you have a Tolkien character equivalent to Gabriel?

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  2. @ben:

    Perhaps Ulmo.

    I also think Ulmo was born as Moses (this being one of the reasons that Moses had power over the water). So in this case Moses would also be Gabriel, which could make sense.

    Did you have any character-equivalents that were already on your mind?

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  3. I'm not really familiar with all the Tolkien characters.

    But I think Tolkien's cosmology is flawed in that it's based in assumptions fit for an earlier consciousness eg creation of beings from scratch by God, eg not appreciating that the default situation (spirithood) is characterised by great freedom (spirits being very free to act, while also being relatively free from being acted upon by other spirits in ways that constrain them - both the unfree and vulnerability aspects of mortality being contrived by God for learning purposes). So there wouldn't really be a hierarchy as such, cosmically. There might be a teacher, and prefects, and students here though (but 'cobbled together' by God, subtly organising pre-existing beings).

    In my understanding, Gabriel is another name for Jesus.

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  4. ben:

    I read Tolkien's cosmology a bit differently, as I think he did account for or describe beings with quite a bit of autonomy and freedom coming together and creating something that was relatively free from God imposing his will on them. However, I don't think that the Ainur and other beings who were involved in creation were themselves created (as seems implied in Tolkien's writings, at least how they were published), and it sounds like you are of this opinion as well if I understand you correctly.

    As to the default position, I don't think spirithood is our default. A soul is the natural state of man, and that comprises a body and spirit. When we are found only in spirit form, this is something less than our natural or default position. In this, although I ground quite a lot of my view in Mormon-based theology, I disagree with the Mormon notion that we only existed as spirits before this earth and this is our first go around with bodies.

    On hierarchy, I do think there is one, but the implications of that hierarchy are different than how hierarchy plays out in this world. The greatest serve the least, as Jesus - who is the greatest - demonstrates.

    I am curious, though, as to why Gabriel was on your mind, or what made you ask the question in the first place? Was it as a potential example of the limitations to Tolkien's cosmology as you see them, or for a different reason?

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    1. I thought it would be fascinating to learn more about Jesus as a being through time and space (rather than just one incarnation for a few decades).

      I have other characters from mythology, like Gabriel, and Hermes, associated with Jesus. I thought if I asked you about Gabriel rather than Jesus, you might lead me to a Tolkien version of the same sort of character.

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  5. Ben:

    A bit tangental/ off topic for this post, I guess, and I don't have anyone to point you to as a character that is an incarnation of Jesus in Tolkien because I don't think there are any (besides Eru).

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  6. Having said that, beings may be associated with Jesus (in some cases seeming almost identical to him, as I alluded to in this post regarding the Holy Ghost). The fact that you see similarities in these other mythological beings may not necessarily mean that they are Jesus, but rather point to beings that are very like Jesus in mission (i.e., belonging to Jesus' order).

    For example, I would associate Hermes more with the Holy Ghost, currently, as also with the same being known as Jah-ho-e-oop or Jah-ni hah from Joseph Smith's "Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language". Here is the brief description for that being from that text:

    "An ambassador: one delegated with Kingly power; one authorized to ex[e]cute judgement for the King; a swift messenger one whose power cannot be escaped; one next to supreme...

    "one delegated from the highest soar acting in or b[e]ing clothed with the power of another; one from sent from the Celestial Kingdom"

    Some attributes here seem to match up pretty well with Hermes/ Mercury, and this being takes on the mission that I overall attribute to the Holy Ghost.

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    1. My understanding is that Jesus is particularly good at spiritually bearing on other humans. This is experienced as 'the Holy Ghost' (which maybe can also include other sinless humans bearing on a person's spirit directly), Jesus also spiritually transforms individuals to sinlessness with their consent (once they're ready to accept that transformation), Jesus has been 'sending' revelation to prophets by shaping them spiritually (meaning the revelations of eg Joseph Smith were 'made of' Joseph Smith, with Joseph Smith's spirit being shaped by Jesus).

      I think Jesus also carries out an initial spiritual transformation for prophets, 'bringing them online', rendering them able to receive revelation:

      Joseph Smith: "...when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me and had such astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction."

      Muhammad: "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.'"

      Daniel: "Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength."

      Abraham: "Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him."

      So Jesus would be involved in world-historical movements of this sort, delivering messages to prophets. This would include interactions with non-Abrahamic figures and so Jesus would be named by other cultures as eg Hermes, Nabu

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