Monday, April 15, 2024

Gim Guru and Independence Day

 In my post where I provide my guess as to the meaning of the cryptic Gim Guru name, I noted that I received this name on the 4th of July, or Independence Day in the United States.  The day is celebrated because on July 4th, 1776, the Declaration of Independence was signed.


As I have thought a bit about where I landed with Gim Guru, and his partner Gim Githil, I don't think this was by accident.


The Gim G's, along with others, will have a role, it seems, in gathering Beings to Zion.   Zion has always been connected with "Independence", even in looking at names.  People familiar with Mormonism will likely know that Joseph Smith and early Mormons understood the place of Independence, Missouri as the 'center' of what they hoped to become THE Zion.  In D&C 57, here is what a voice is recorded as saying to Joseph Smith:


Hearken, O ye elders of my church, saith the Lord your God, who have assembled yourselves together, according to my commandments, in this land, which is the land of Missouri, which is the land which I have appointed and consecrated for the gathering of the saints.

Wherefore, this is the land of promise, and the place for the city of Zion.

And thus saith the Lord your God, if you will receive wisdom here is wisdom. Behold, the place which is now called Independence is the center place; and a spot for the temple is lying westward, upon a lot which is not far from the courthouse.


So here is a declaration, of sorts, about Independence, and that this place is supposed to be 'the land of promise' and Zion.


Now, I don't view this as currently being correct.  How do I reconcile my thoughts relative to this passage, and others in the D&C citing Missouri as Zion?  I have no idea.  I am sure something will come up to help explain things, or it won't and I might be wrong, but in the meantime all I can say is my view that the 'Holy Places' that people will be gathered out to are not on this world.


Things will be turned upside down, apparently, including beliefs and traditions, so maybe this is just another one of those beliefs.  It is a popular Mormon belief to view the United States as the promised land, that Zion will be built here, and that even Mormons (in some folk lore traditions) will save the Constitution (which will hang by a thread) and thus the United States from ruin.  Perhaps some influence from the American Nightmare Asshat Asbalom in this belief?  I don't know, really.  I just don't think it is right.


So, I use the above example almost tongue-in-cheek to show that the concept of Zion has always been framed in the idea of freedom and 'independence', even so far as to have it appear to be located in a place bearing that name.


According to Nephi's vision, even those Gentiles that will 'sail' away from this world and land on what I think is Eressea #2 will do so to escape 'captivity', or in other words, independence from all other nations.  How will they achieve this?  By being 'lifted up' above all other nations.  


Nevertheless, thou beholdest that the Gentiles who have gone forth out of captivity, and have been lifted up by the power of God above all other nations, upon the face of the land which is choice above all other lands, which is the land that the Lord God hath covenanted with thy father that his seed should have for the land of their inheritance;


My assumption is that we should take 'lifted up' to be a fairly literal statement here, and that it is exactly because they are now above the nations of this world (in that literal sense) that they are now independent from them.  Freedom won't be found within the borders of the United States, or even this world.  


Eressea #2, despite some initial hiccups and working out some kinks with the Gentiles who arrive there, will eventually and ultimately become part of Zion, or the New Jerusalem, reunited with Eressea #1.  It seems that part of the Gentiles' arrival will be to facilitate judgement ahead of this, both for the current inhabitants of Eressea #2, but also for the Gentiles themselves, as I have alluded to in other posts.


In any case, whether for the people being led to Eressea #2, or for others who will be led to Tirion-Jerusalem, the goal and design is the same:  Freedom and Independence.  And not just freedom from other nations, but also, as at least some of my 'words' suggest, freedom from previous and current cursings, which I take to be comprehensive enough to include death itself, remarkably.


In a previous post, I stated that we were going to take the Promised Land out of America, which we've done and placed in the Heavens, or Outer Space:  Eressea #2, for instance.  As part of this, we also have to 'take' the very notion of what Freedom and Independence mean and place that in those places as well.  The Declaration of Independence is a nice ideal and thought for what became the American Experiment - the notion that people can 'throw off' oppressive government and provide their own means of self-government was an amazing thing.  But what that ideal, and what that document has led to in terms of actual practice and results, is not really 'independence' in really any meaningful way.  Not only would many people argue, who live under the ideals of that document, that we are not free as we are meant to be, not the least because that document has no power whatsoever to deliver us from the things and Beings (i.e., Ungoliant, Asshat, Brigham, etc.) that really keep us in captivity here on this world.


So, I view the name of Gim Guru on Independence Day as kind of a poetic gesture, perhaps.  Gim Guru, Gim Githil, and others will help prepare a way for a truly free people.


That Independence Day might be relevant with the name was a funny realization as I reflected on my earlier thoughts regarding the movie National Treasure.  The Declaration of Independence is central to the plot, and ultimately is what Ben and Riley will steal (in order to protect, of course).   In my post National Treasure:  A character study, I had inserted a video clip of  those two characters interacting with a 3rd character (Abigail Chase), likening them to Gim Guru, Gim Githil, and Eowyn-Ilmare. 


That clip had cut some scenes in order to focus just on the interactions with Abigail, and thus left out Ben and Riley walking to the National Archives Rotunda to view the Declaration immediately after meeting with Abigail (which for my purposes was fine since in that context I was focused on the pins as analogies for the records/ testimonies of the Apostles).


In that scene, Ben waxes poetic and quotes part of the Declaration, in saying:


but when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for the future security


He then goes on to say that 'no one talks that way anymore', a phrase which I take (of course) to mean something a bit deeper than the movie intended.  There is a language that has been lost here in our world, and a way of saying things to each other in order to convey meaning that is also gone.  As part of this whole story, I think the way that people talked - meaning their language (our old language) and the stories those languages were conveyed in - will be restored.


Getting back to the main point, though, Ben was emphasizing that the United States (ideally) was founded on the principle that a people are in their right to establish new government and to secure their own freedom if that freedom isn't found in their current situation, and that it is up to those who can act to make this happen to actually make it happen. The point is clearly relevant to the idea of the Holy Places and Zion - places where 'new guards for the future security' can be had.


Further, this idea of 'stealing' the declaration, which ultimately is what Ben and Riley did, also can be an analogy for the work of the Gim G's.  The standard of freedom and independence will be removed from this world, and be placed on another, which might be surprising to many.  As mentioned above, Mormons (devout ones at least) view Zion as literally being built in the United States, and Jesus returning here on this continent.  They will have to change their views, and it may be that some will view this change-up or the claims that Independence is to be found somewhere else as akin to 'stealing' something, maybe.  I don't know - I don't want to push the analogy too far, but maybe you get what I am saying.  In addition, once the Family of Light is gone - all of them - both independence and peace will be also completely removed from this world, and thus 'stolen' in that sense, as well.


Ultimately, in order to be truly 'free', people will need to be gathered out from this world, on a couple different paths apparently, and go elsewhere.  It seems Gim Guru will be involved in that whole thing, and thus why I thought the connection to his name being mentioned on Independence Day to be more than coincidence.


Here is the clip from National Treasure where Ben and Riley go visit the Declaration of Independence:



7 comments:

  1. One way to solve the Missouri conundrum is to view it in light of the Philo Dibble drawings. That place in Missouri was perhaps just meant to be the connection point between worlds. Maybe that's where the rainbow lands, so to speak, and the place to which those unwilling to kill their neighbor will flee in order to escape.

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  2. Leo:

    OK, that is an interesting thought I hadn't considered.

    So, in this view, Independence is essentially a staging ground for the journey that begins from there. The commands to buy up all the lands around the area would have been to ensure there was enough space for everyone to gather to while they wait to make the trip?

    I think you could sell me on this.

    What about Kirtland? How does that factor in here? We are dealing potentially with two different Holy Places with Jerusalem (Tirion) and New Jerusalem (Off of Eressea #1). Any chance Kirtland acts as a gate to Tirion and Independence leads to Eressea?

    Your comment also reminded me of one of my favorite games in Elementary School: Oregon Trail. The trail head started in Independence (as did the real Oregon Trail). So, your idea of Independence being a place where people might begin their 'walk' to another world might have some legs.

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  3. I hadn't considered Kirtland in this at all. I looked into this Missouri dilemma not too long ago and felt like I had to make sense of it somehow in light of this current imagining of other worlds/planets. And that was the best I came up. The speaker is pretty adamant about Independence Missouri being the place and another place not being appointed. But I'm not sure if the same is said of Kirtland? Maybe it is. If not, then I'd say Kirtland was just an early attempt to purify the people and bring them into God's presence. The same could be said of Nauvoo. Missouri seems like a different case altogether compared to those other two.

    Missouri is meant as the "center" and so I think that is the main place to gather, but there are "stakes of zion". So one could argue there are multiple connections between the worlds and various gathering places for that purpose? Idk. Shooting from the hip here.

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  4. Yeah, sorry - I wasn't clear on why I was asking the questions in that way.

    I view most of "Israel" as gathering to Eressea (#1 probably or around there), and based on your suggestion think that it could be workable for Independence to be the staging point for that gathering. So, I think we are aligned on that point.

    In referring to the Kirtland Temple, I am exploring a guess that God's servants will have a direct link to Heaven (or Tirion) itself, and perhaps other places in the sky, and it seems to be from that place that this happens. This is why I wrote those few posts on the symbolism of the eclipse (the Anor and Ithil Stone alignment) and its tie to the Kirtland Temple.

    In other words, two places in the US and in Mormon history seem to have future ties to non-earthly places. Israel would be gathered to Eressea #1 (in this guess) and this constitutes the major 'gathering', as it were, and the path there could begin in Independence. But some Beings, specifically God's servants, would have direct access to Tirion-Valinor in order to hear God's voice, receive power, etc., and that would be Kirtland and what I meant by another gate or door.

    I don't know - take a look at the the Kirtland dedicatory prayer in D&C 109 and see if you see any of that in there.

    My current assumption is that Kirtland isn't a failed attempt at all, but that everything Joseph read about in that prayer will happen, including that link between heaven and the servants.

    Anyway, to summarize the hypothesis in another way, Independence links to New Jerusalem (or what will be built into New Jerusalem), and Kirtland links to Jerusalem-Tirion.

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  5. How would the Nauvoo temple attempt fit in w this idea? And by failed attempt I mean it apparently didn't work back then, at least as far as i can tell. Not that it won't work in the future. But yeah I think you're onto something w the Kirtland temple meant to be a gate of some type.

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  6. I don't know about the Nauvoo temple. It was the first temple to have a baptismal font in the basement, which Kirtland lacked. Some connection to the Dead?

    I mean, it was never fully completed and seems more associated with Brigham Young than Joseph, to my thinking at least. The were several stages of construction and multiple dedications at different milestones. The only dedication that was conducted during Joseph's lifetime was the Baptismal Font, and he asked Brigham to do it. Other dedications after Joseph's death all involved a partially built structure that was never completed. And it was burned by fire - twice, with the second one completely gutting the structure.

    Do we have to worry about it at all?

    It is also interesting how similar Nauvoo is to the Elvish word for Dwarf: Naugu or Naucu. Really, really close.

    Given some of your thoughts about at least a subset of Dwarves among early Mormons (and my own wondering about whether there was a reunion of Dairon-Brigham with those evil Dwarves who helped him betray Thingol), maybe Nauvoo served as a gathering point for these evil beings? I mean, a lot of bad stuff seemed to reach its peak in Nauvoo, culminating in Joseph and Hyrum's murder, and Brigham's takeover of the church.

    That might be an interesting angle?

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  7. I am pretty prejudiced against any temple bc of their connection to Sauron on Numenor so I don't mind discarding them. But then I have to wonder why the commandment to build them in JS day? The Nauvoo temple was usurped by BY and his acolytes but it was started through JS and whoever was speaking to him in the revelations. If section 124 is valid, it was pretty important to finish that temple by a certain time or else the people risked being rejected by God as individuals and as a group along w their dead. And that is obviously what happened. So that temple must have been relevant in some way and then I see BY spinning it to something not good in the wake of JS' death.

    If correct, then I assume it has to be accounted for along with Kirtland and Independence. Or I think you could say those two temples were just failed attempts at something else. Section 109 says God's work can be "cut short in righteousness" which I take to mean that those Mormons had a chance to make short work of the end times by being made righteous and then speeding things along as it relates to the gathering of Israel. For some reason the temples would help w that.

    Here's a clue as to why. JS said certain things had to be revealed to those Mormons but that "the rich can only get them in the temple -- the poor may get them on the mountain top as did Moses. The rich cannot be saved without charity, giving to feed the poor when and how God requires, as well as building." I take that to mean those Mormons were considered "rich". And in Tolkien's world, which was the richest race? It was the riches (and greed) of the dwarves that drove many of the biggest stories of Middle Earth. So if the dwarves are present as those early Mormons, we can see why they had to prove they had charity. They had to sacrifice something and build not for themselves, but for the glory of God. If they had done it, they would have been made righteous and who knows what would have happened. But that of course didn't happen. They apparently did not yet have charity by 1844.

    So long story short, I would think you either have to account for all of those temples or none of them. I see your point about 109 but then I think you'd have to treat 124 and other references to the Nauvoo temple the same way. I do love the call out to Naugu/Nauvoo though. That's potentially a big clue about the involvement of the dwarves. (I know you generally disagree w that theory but you brought it up so it's fair game!) And what was Nauvoo called originally? Commerce! No wonder they wanted to settle there.

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