I was pulling some things together for a slightly different topic, and in doing so was reading Alma's words to Helaman in Alma 37.
I've brought in this chapter several times before, because we have mention of quite a few things that are being entrusted to Helaman that I think will be relevant in a future day for us, in addition to allusions to other things that will join with them (i.e., Sawtooth Stone).
One of these things is the Brass Plates. It struck me again just how much Alma is teaching here that the Brass Plates will in fact be preserved. God had promised they would be, and Alma's message is that God can and will fulfill all of this promises.
But if ye keep the commandments of God, and do with these things [Brass Plates] which are sacred according to that which the Lord doth command you, (for you must appeal unto the Lord for all things whatsoever ye must do with them) behold, no power of earth or hell can take them from you, for God is powerful to the fulfilling of all his words.
For he will fulfil all his promises which he shall make unto you, for he has fulfilled his promises which he has made unto our fathers.
For he promised unto them that he would preserve these things for a wise purpose in him, that he might show forth his power unto future generations.
And now behold, one purpose hath he fulfilled, even to the restoration of many thousands of the Lamanites to the knowledge of the truth; and he hath shown forth his power in them, and he will also still show forth his power in them unto future generations; therefore they shall be preserved.
No power exists to destroy these plates, because God has promised that that nothing would and, as Alma hammers on again and again in his discussion with Helaman, he is "powerful to the fulfilling of all his words."
Should you ever come across an individual who teaches that the Brass Plates have been destroyed or in some way lost to any future use, my own view is that you can mark that person as a liar. What motive would a person have for spreading that lie? My guess is that there are things on those Brass Plates that they and those they work with would rather not have see the light of day. And Ether's 24 Plates. And the Sawtooth Stone. And other records.
This also has to do with the red paint mixing in with the white, in another layer or way of interpreting my paint dream. It is the opposite symbolism of a redeemed Israel, right? With their redemption, crimson sins become white as the driven snow. However, with these other Beings, who have been painting with their faux White, hoping to cover a multitude of secret sins, the Red will find them.
And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed. (D&C 1)
Is someone saying the Brass Plates have been destroyed? I know you’ve phrased it as a hypothetical, but it reads as if you have a particular person in mind. My first guess would be Doug, but I don’t remember him saying anything like that, at least not in the Cultural History.
ReplyDeleteWJT it's part of the story in his third and latest book. Sauron succeeds in getting some formerly righteous people to melt the Brass Plates down as well as destroy other records. I really struggle with that tale because, for one it's hard for me to reconcile with the timeline in the BoM, and for another a central theme of the BoM is the Nephite desire to preserve records and the Lamanite desire to destroy them, which leads to a great deal of anxiety from Nephite prophets. That's why we have God getting petitioned to preserve the records. Besides the verses Bill referenced, you have Enos who asked for records to be preserved, which God granted. He also told Enos that he wasn't the first person to require that promise from God.
ReplyDeleteHaving said all that, I suppose one could argue that the Brass Plates were melted down and then later re-recorded on new brass plates sometime before Nephi steals them from Laban, which I believe is the argument Daymon makes (not 100% sure though). Maybe that solves the question of timeline. But the problem is you have BoM prophets so worried about a repeat melting down of records (in this theory) that they harass God for a promise. The issue I have w that theory is it either matters for the records to be preserved or it doesn't. If it doesn't, God's response should have been "don't sweat it, homie, b/c if someone destroys your records we'll just create them again like we did with the original Brass Plates." But instead God takes their concern seriously enough to promise miraculous preservation, so I really don't think the tale of Brass Plates being melted is a very good or accurate tale. It's the kind of tale that just doesn't sit right for me.
I looked into this more because the timing of the Brass Plates' destruction was different than I had assumed (I haven't read the third book, and had just heard in general terms that the plates were said to have been destroyed).
ReplyDeleteI actually bought the Kindle version of the 3rd book just to look this point up specifically.
It looks like in that story, the version that Nephi walks away from Jerusalem with is a copy. The original plates were destroyed sometime before.
My overall criticism still stands, though the Book of Mormon prophecies technically don't really apply in this case (since the destruction doesn't happen to the copy, in his story). Rather, there are two fatal flaws in Doug's story, at least based on my initial reactions, and I will lay out what I think in another post.
But, in terms of the target of my criticism, you have to remember it isn't just Doug, but also whoever is speaking to Doug. In this case, the person he calls Pengolodh. He has just as much, if not more, of my attention when I think through things like this.
Actually, I am not going to spend a post on it - I can't stand the writing of the 3rd book enough to write a credible post on this. I would get things wrong for sure.
ReplyDeleteOf the two flaws I thought of initially, the biggest (for me - it may not bother anyone else) is that the Brass Plates, in Doug's tale, were re-created in the same way that Doug's own writings have been created: channelling Pengolodh. I think problematic in creating a reliable and credible record, but also problematic in elevating Doug's own process and writings to be on par with what was on those Plates.
In other words, it seemed a bit self-serving for the parties involved. The original recorders and authors are removed from the record, along with the record itself, and Pengolodh establishes himself as the source of truth.
That's a good point as well. My biggest concern with a claim that they were destroyed and remade is it opens the door wide open for a cunning counterfeit. Someone knowledgable enough (like a loremaster) could recreate an altered version and justify being the source by claiming the original was destroyed. And then if they can somehow keep the correct one from coming out, all the better. But regardless, the counterfeit could be used to discredit the true account. So if P is a bad dude, getting people to believe the original was destroyed and that he is the source of recreating that record is exactly how I'd see a counterfeit coming about.
DeleteWhat was the second fatal flaw you mentioned?
Agreed on the counterfeit scenario. I think very valid.
ReplyDeleteThe second flaw was Moria using the signature of Mos'th (who sometimes is referred to as Pengolodh, sometimes not. . . I am not going to figure that out now). Moira was essentially the Doug of the Brass Plates in that she channelled Pengolodh in making the copy after the original records were destroyed. Pengolodh at this point, apparently, had transformed himself into a glass ball - I guess what else would the "greatest lore master" (as he is called in this last book) wish to be but a Seer Stone himself?
Anyway, she signed it with Mos'th signature, even though it was she that was writing it (again with some mind connection with Pengolodh-turned-Stone). This strikes me as dishonest, and it is the same game that was played in Doug's writing of his books. Doesn't pass my test of what would count as an authoritative or credible record - certainly not a record that required so much concern and prayer from Book of Mormon prophets to preserve - and so this was the second fatal flaw for me.